Discussion about this post

User's avatar
C_B's avatar
Aug 13Edited

Disagree with your Civ 5 takes here.

It's true that building military is a trade-off that costs you in other domains, and that on high difficulty you can't outproduce the AIs on military (at least not until the late game) while remaining competitive for other victory conditions. But if you conclude from this that the correct play is just to skip military and accept losses on games where you get attacked, then that's a skill issue. There are plenty of players who consistently win on Deity, even on games where they get invaded (narrow exceptions for, like, spawning right next to Montezuma getting bum-rushed with Jaguars in the Ancient era; that can be genuinely unwinnable).

There are two key advantages that players have over the AIs in war, even on Deity, and abusing them is the key to victory:

1. The AIs are very easy to manipulate via diplomacy, and you can use this to influence when you get attacked (e.g., by bribing an AI to go to war with a different AI). This usually isn't sufficient to prevent a bellicose neighbor from attacking you for the entire game, but it can buy you time and allow you to determine the timing of the inevitable war so that it happens when you're most ready for it.

2. The AIs are absolute garbage at tactics. With good play, you can crush an invading army, even if you are heavily outnumbered.

So good defensive play on Deity involves:

- Spending the early game investing in units with strong upgrade paths, farming XP on them, and keeping them alive: A Range/Logistics Crossbowman parked in a city can defend that city from an absurd number of attackers. Artillery and Frigates/Battleships are similarly busted with enough XP. Fortified melee units that are adjacent to units with the Medic upgrade can outheal incoming damage even while the AI is throwing everything it can at them.

- Placing your frontier cities in defensible locations: Know what city is going to get attacked if you do get attacked. In that city, consider how many tiles have line-of-sight to bombard them, whether the tiles from which they'll be attacked have river crossings, whether there's a coast or lakes to bait the AI into embarking (the AI loves to stupidly embark units mid-fight, making them sitting ducks to shooting), whether there are good choke points for you to build forts/citadels.

- Abusing the AI's terrible tactical decision-making to win despite ridiculously lopsided numbers advantages on the AI's side: Abuse the stupid embarkation behavior described above, abuse the fact that the AI will never move-and-shoot, abuse the fact that the AI forgets about the existence of units it can't currently see with fast cavalry, abuse the AI's tendency to melee attack cities/fortified units even when it's very costly and correct play would do nothing. Turn your frontier into a defensive meatgrinder and achieve ridiculous casualty ratios.

- Manipulating the AI via diplomacy to make them less likely to attack you when you're vulnerable, and only fight the war when you're ready for it: Knowing what actions on the player's part (city placement, diplomatic actions, ideology choice) make you more likely to get attacked is also a key skill for this.

Skilled players who do this stuff can achieve like 90%+ winrates on Deity, including many games where they get attacked.

(And then in the late game, when you're actively going for a victory condition, you become capable of out-teching/out-producing the AIs, so you can actually go kill people, which is obviously required for Domination victory, and often important for other victory types as well, since you frequently need to snipe the strongest player to keep them from winning.)

Eric C.'s avatar

re: majority usage of tokens is non-Fable, I have friends rolling out frontier lab models at enterprise companies and it's a major administrative lift to get the higher models turned on.

They need to not just be better, but have better price/performance. And not just for your superstar coders but for everyone in the organization covered by that Claude Code/Codex instance.

Companies have budgets! Maybe you would say Fable has better price/performance for you, but would you trust a random person at your company could get value out of it?

44 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?