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Ethics Gradient's avatar

"I think this is wrong. San Francisco and New York are valued for their density and the results of being dense, but also highly valued for other reasons."

Are they though? It seems like basically everything that would suggest that the notion that living in NYC or SF is desirable is, to first order (or *at most* second order) the result of agglomeration effects. The putative amenities aren't really taken advantage of on anything like the scale of day to day living (as the Onion observes "nobody goes to the Met anyway," - and if you did, it would be weird to pay rent through the nose 364 days a year to save a trip of a couple of hours to NYC on the 365th). And heaven knows it isn't the schools. Basically every reason to actually *live* in New York or similar urban metropolises at eyewatering rents with low per-person space and lousy public schools seems to round out to "the labor market is robust and pay is higher" - which I think can comfortably be called an agglomeration effect. Everything else seems more like a reason at most to visit rather than a reason to forgo more space at lower cost at all times.

[ Onion article referenced above: https://www.theonion.com/8-4-million-new-yorkers-suddenly-realize-new-york-city-1819571723 ]

Brandon Adams's avatar

Years ago I was thinking of moving in to downtown Seattle from the suburbs to eliminate my commute. I was shocked to find that pretty much every high rise had absurd HOA fees, and a quick search through listings on Zillow confirms this is still true. Here's an 800 sq ft unit for $600,000 but with a $910 per month HOA fee: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/909-5th-Ave-UNIT-1805-Seattle-WA-98164/83230588_zpid/

At the time I had assumed that there was something about high-rises that was just far more expensive to maintain. Maybe it's the elevators, or seismic compliance, the plumbing, something else? But the maintenance cost for that 800 sq ft condo is far higher than would be the maintenance cost on an 800 sq ft bungalow, even factoring in that every 20-30 years you'd need to pay for your own new roof.

Suppose that density doesn't actually increase local *prices*, might it still not increase local costs?

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