I'm planning to wait for a Samsung or Xiaomi copycat that acts as an HDMI device and lets me connect my Macbook screen into 1 (or more) virtual screens. Would be super useful while traveling. If the Apple version was $1500 or less I'd get it, for $4000 definitely not worth it.
I primarily use productivity apps on Windows and Linux, but I also have my iphone and ipad. I need a general purpose device that supports multiple productivity screens. Yes, I may use it for some gaming as well, but I actually don't watch videos all that often. So, no, this version is not for me.
I think this would be good if I watched a bunch of movies, but Facebook’s beatsaber is my favorite game I’ve played on one of these so I’d probably just get that if I bought a headset
Seems intriguing for the visual connoisseur, in the same way that I can understand and appreciate an audiophile dropping big bucks on fancy headphones/vinyl/whatever. Potentially big game if one already happens to have all the other combo pieces in play, the traveling Apple salesman. Even if I were in either bucket though - very much feels prudent to wait for at least the VisionQuest Pro 2 and/or competitors' offerings. That bulk and battery life is a real drag, if most of the value is in immersive experiences where the point is to lose track of time. Like (if it were possible right now, which it isn't) I've definitely played some wild Commander games that went as long as the entire battery life...and thinking about ideal gaming uses, like FPS or MMOs, no way am I not binge-playing for many hours on end. Gotta get those hardware improvements first, even within the narrow software uses. Bummer to hear about the keyboard/hand movements too, that's also how I'd expect the default to be. Probably coming in the future, it's known tech...
(Being completely outside the Appleverse is a whole separate hurdle; I've tried really hard not to fall into that wallet garden. Still happily computing away on a good old "durable enough to kill zombies with" ThinkPad.)
Thanks for the review. Curious if your thoughts would've been meaningfully different with a longer demo. Really feels like the sort of novel (well...stepwise upgrade) tech where you gotta let people try it out for a day or so for a fair shake.
If they had let me try using a keyboard and Mac I think that would have made a difference, although I don't know which direction. Same with letting me try some games.
My overall impression from using it is that it is very much Not There For Me Yet, but that I 95%+ expect that I will own one by the 3rd generation.
It is a very worthwhile demo -- some real "wow" experiences, as well as some experiences more "meh" than you expect. I did have to wait about 30 minutes beyond the scheduled start time for the demo, which was a deeply underwhelming start to an otherwise-concierge experience. (Perhaps that is the point.)
I wonder if Pixar or similar have the assets needed to port panoramic movies from their existing stock. Then watching Encanto in 3d could the killer app.
I guess I don't really understand the appeal. I love watching stuff in VR on my Quest 2, but I don't know why I'd buy this over a Quest 3 which already has a native Netflix and YouTube app. Plus way more and better games. Plus it easily integrates with SteamVR to get all my SteamVR games. And you save $3000.
Same here. The Apple announcement trailer made me buy a meta quest 3 at launch and I'm really happy with it, it's in almost daily use with beat saber (modded to get custom songs) and other fitness apps being our main use case.
I have a Valve Index, which I've tried on several occasions to use for productivity- it's compatible with some pretty decent ZBrush-like 3d modelling apps, and while being able to walk around a model you're sculpting is a great feature, over long periods of time, the constant mild annoyance of that weight hanging off your face just isn't worth it. Same thing with using it to watch video- relaxing in front of a large TV is just more physically comfortable long-term. Despite my best effort to find good use cases for it, the $1000+ piece of hardware has been gathering dust on a shelf for well over a year now. Aside from a small handful of very immersive VR games where the advantage over a monitor is just barely enough to justify the discomfort, I feel like these headsets are going to need to be anywhere from a third to a tenth their current weight to be worthwhile for long-term use.
In my view, that physical discomfort is the main limiting factor for VR in the same way that the discomfort of small screens and bad input schemes were the limiting factor of cellphones before the iPhone. Apple circa 2007 solved that problem by replacing physical buttons with more screen and compensating with an innovative interface, but modern Apple seems to have taken entirely the wrong lesson from that success. Instead of asking themselves why people aren't using VR for productivity already and trying to solve that specific limiting factor, they're just trying the same trick of removing physical controls, adding screen, and inventing new inputs- almost like a cargo cult of themselves.
When someone invents a VR headset with a similar form factor to a pair of ordinary sunglasses, that will be the iPhone of VR, not this.
For what it's worth, the Apple Vision Pro is lighter than the Valve Index. The cable is slightly annoying but well worth the weight reduction for this exact reason. Imagine how light a Quest would be if it had an external battery!
I did some research on light-weight VR headsets after I left the comment. Apparently there's a new one called the "Bigscreen Beyond" that's just 4.5 ounces- about a fifth the weight of the Apple Vision Pro, or around four times the weight of a pair of sunglasses, for ~$1000.
Unfortunately, they've apparently saved weight by not including an adjustable face cushion or lenses. Instead, they 3d-print a custom face cushion based on an iPhone scan of your face- which is a serious barrier to purchase if, like me, you don't have access to a new iPhone. Also, apparently some people are getting blurry images with the default distance of the lenses from the eyes, and are having to beg the company to print thicker or thinner replacement face cushions.
Still, I'm seriously considering replacing my Index with one of these and just figuring out work-arounds for the face cushion issues.
My instinct is to hold off. Somewhat like the iPhone at launch (no native apps but those from Apple) this sounds like a fantastic device that is too crippled by conservative limits on acceptable ways to use it. If they can open it up a little bit, in the sense of using it as a screen for any old device, and in the sense of allowing developers to expand the range of productivity tools and input modalities, it will become a must-have.
I got one and it's been an incredible productivity machine for me. For anyone interested in productivity, I suggest thinking about how many desktop-exclusive programs you want to be able to see at once. Once you are using all the available native/iPad apps on the vision pro directly, would you be able to fit everything else on a single 27-inch monitor?
I suspect that most people's productivity consists of putting input into one screen using one or two specialized programs, and would benefit from having more screens for reading at once (e.g. typing code into a code editor while having multiple documentation windows, dashboards, or communication apps open around it). This fits the Vision Pro's current capabilities perfectly.
Keep in mind that the Vision Pro has full web support, so anything web-based like Google Docs, Youtube, Slack, Obsidian, etc work great natively (either as webpages or as electron apps).
You definitely want a keyboard and trackpad for productivity; your mac's keyboard and trackpad/mouse work seamlessly with native apps when connected.
The main advantage of the Vision Pro for productivity is the basic more pixels = more productivity relationship, combined with the fact that turning your head slightly gives you 4x-9x more pixels at zero marginal cost. For me personally, I also find that having non-overlapping windows causes much less distraction and falling down rabbit holes (example: doing a web search doesn't cause my main work to be obscured from view). I also find that the Vision Pro gives me less friction / maintains flow better when there are physical world interruptions to my computer work or when using computer world entertainment while I am doing physical world work.
Display Quality
Subjectively, I'd say that the mac display mode is like a 3840x2160 display at 27-inches — it's substandard but made workable by the ability to blow up the display. The native apps are higher quality but not quite up to Apple's standards for post-2014 Macs. If I'm only thinking about working in my study, I'd be tempted to trade the Vision Pro for having 3 total 5K 27-inch displays; hopefully this gives you a good sense of the differences in display quality and good comparison for the price.
The Vision Pro would probably be a huge step up in display quality for those who would describe themselves as "non-Apple" people; the Windows-OEM ecosystem is extremely stifled for choice in this area.
Games
Non-immersive games are much, much better in mixed reality than VR. I found Synth Riders more fun and easier to play anywhere than Beat Saber because I didn't need to mess with controllers or making sure I wouldn't trip or punch a wall while blind. The built in board game app is great but the social network is not there. The Vision Pro is obviously capable of playing high-quality immersive VR games, but Apple has a bad track record of alienating of game studios.
Comfort
Comfort is great, though I do feel a little eye strain after multiple hours of use. The strap they use for the demos and marketing materials is much less good for prolonged use than the dual-loop one.
Loneliness
Spatial computing is incomplete without the ability for you to share your computing space with others. With every other screen I have the option of showing someone else what's on it, but with the Vision Pro I can only share my view, not the things I am looking at in the space they're in. Even if someone is has another vision pro in the room with me, I can't say "hey come look at this". Hopefully Apple is working on this — they have been building AR stuff into iPhones and iPads for a long time; the ability for someone else to hold up an iPad as a window into the space I've made in the Vision Pro would be a huge step forward in terms of working with other people.
So obvious question - who was using only one 27 inch screen before? That's madness! I am using three 30" right now. I think anyone with less than 2 is making a pretty crazy mistake.
So to look good wearing this I'd probably have to wear my sportbike gear? Maybe the clothes associated with anything that you normally have to wear a helmet for? (would a construction worker look good wearing this thing?)
> In this case, That One Killer App that I am confident in, right now, is as a way to watch movies. Also television or YouTube or other video, potentially, but especially movies where you want to give your full attention and they are designed for the biggest possible screen.
Ok, but, for this use case, there is competition from a range of ~$300 device that have existed for like 2 years: Xreal air, Rokid Air, Virture One XR, etc... I personally have been using nreal air (now xreal air) since late 2022 and can say they are great for entertainment (Steam Deck, Films, TV Series). They are occasionally good for productivity (e.g: on train, plane) but real monitors are better.
I'm planning to wait for a Samsung or Xiaomi copycat that acts as an HDMI device and lets me connect my Macbook screen into 1 (or more) virtual screens. Would be super useful while traveling. If the Apple version was $1500 or less I'd get it, for $4000 definitely not worth it.
Looks snazzy, but snazzy isn't worth 3.5k
AI read Podcast episode of this post:
https://open.substack.com/pub/askwhocastsai/p/more-on-the-apple-vision-pro-by-zvi
I primarily use productivity apps on Windows and Linux, but I also have my iphone and ipad. I need a general purpose device that supports multiple productivity screens. Yes, I may use it for some gaming as well, but I actually don't watch videos all that often. So, no, this version is not for me.
I think this would be good if I watched a bunch of movies, but Facebook’s beatsaber is my favorite game I’ve played on one of these so I’d probably just get that if I bought a headset
Seems intriguing for the visual connoisseur, in the same way that I can understand and appreciate an audiophile dropping big bucks on fancy headphones/vinyl/whatever. Potentially big game if one already happens to have all the other combo pieces in play, the traveling Apple salesman. Even if I were in either bucket though - very much feels prudent to wait for at least the VisionQuest Pro 2 and/or competitors' offerings. That bulk and battery life is a real drag, if most of the value is in immersive experiences where the point is to lose track of time. Like (if it were possible right now, which it isn't) I've definitely played some wild Commander games that went as long as the entire battery life...and thinking about ideal gaming uses, like FPS or MMOs, no way am I not binge-playing for many hours on end. Gotta get those hardware improvements first, even within the narrow software uses. Bummer to hear about the keyboard/hand movements too, that's also how I'd expect the default to be. Probably coming in the future, it's known tech...
(Being completely outside the Appleverse is a whole separate hurdle; I've tried really hard not to fall into that wallet garden. Still happily computing away on a good old "durable enough to kill zombies with" ThinkPad.)
Thanks for the review. Curious if your thoughts would've been meaningfully different with a longer demo. Really feels like the sort of novel (well...stepwise upgrade) tech where you gotta let people try it out for a day or so for a fair shake.
If they had let me try using a keyboard and Mac I think that would have made a difference, although I don't know which direction. Same with letting me try some games.
My overall impression from using it is that it is very much Not There For Me Yet, but that I 95%+ expect that I will own one by the 3rd generation.
It is a very worthwhile demo -- some real "wow" experiences, as well as some experiences more "meh" than you expect. I did have to wait about 30 minutes beyond the scheduled start time for the demo, which was a deeply underwhelming start to an otherwise-concierge experience. (Perhaps that is the point.)
I wonder if Pixar or similar have the assets needed to port panoramic movies from their existing stock. Then watching Encanto in 3d could the killer app.
I guess I don't really understand the appeal. I love watching stuff in VR on my Quest 2, but I don't know why I'd buy this over a Quest 3 which already has a native Netflix and YouTube app. Plus way more and better games. Plus it easily integrates with SteamVR to get all my SteamVR games. And you save $3000.
Same here. The Apple announcement trailer made me buy a meta quest 3 at launch and I'm really happy with it, it's in almost daily use with beat saber (modded to get custom songs) and other fitness apps being our main use case.
For me, the weight is a deal-breaker.
I have a Valve Index, which I've tried on several occasions to use for productivity- it's compatible with some pretty decent ZBrush-like 3d modelling apps, and while being able to walk around a model you're sculpting is a great feature, over long periods of time, the constant mild annoyance of that weight hanging off your face just isn't worth it. Same thing with using it to watch video- relaxing in front of a large TV is just more physically comfortable long-term. Despite my best effort to find good use cases for it, the $1000+ piece of hardware has been gathering dust on a shelf for well over a year now. Aside from a small handful of very immersive VR games where the advantage over a monitor is just barely enough to justify the discomfort, I feel like these headsets are going to need to be anywhere from a third to a tenth their current weight to be worthwhile for long-term use.
In my view, that physical discomfort is the main limiting factor for VR in the same way that the discomfort of small screens and bad input schemes were the limiting factor of cellphones before the iPhone. Apple circa 2007 solved that problem by replacing physical buttons with more screen and compensating with an innovative interface, but modern Apple seems to have taken entirely the wrong lesson from that success. Instead of asking themselves why people aren't using VR for productivity already and trying to solve that specific limiting factor, they're just trying the same trick of removing physical controls, adding screen, and inventing new inputs- almost like a cargo cult of themselves.
When someone invents a VR headset with a similar form factor to a pair of ordinary sunglasses, that will be the iPhone of VR, not this.
For what it's worth, the Apple Vision Pro is lighter than the Valve Index. The cable is slightly annoying but well worth the weight reduction for this exact reason. Imagine how light a Quest would be if it had an external battery!
I did some research on light-weight VR headsets after I left the comment. Apparently there's a new one called the "Bigscreen Beyond" that's just 4.5 ounces- about a fifth the weight of the Apple Vision Pro, or around four times the weight of a pair of sunglasses, for ~$1000.
Unfortunately, they've apparently saved weight by not including an adjustable face cushion or lenses. Instead, they 3d-print a custom face cushion based on an iPhone scan of your face- which is a serious barrier to purchase if, like me, you don't have access to a new iPhone. Also, apparently some people are getting blurry images with the default distance of the lenses from the eyes, and are having to beg the company to print thicker or thinner replacement face cushions.
Still, I'm seriously considering replacing my Index with one of these and just figuring out work-arounds for the face cushion issues.
So, no VisiCalc-level killer app that launched the original Apple II to prominence 45 years ago...
"A strange article, worried about future versions being essentially too good."
Here's a good explanation of the intuition at play there:
https://www.slowboring.com/p/is-ever-better-video-content-breaking
Side question: Is there any way to demo any other VR/AR products? To get a comparison?
My instinct is to hold off. Somewhat like the iPhone at launch (no native apps but those from Apple) this sounds like a fantastic device that is too crippled by conservative limits on acceptable ways to use it. If they can open it up a little bit, in the sense of using it as a screen for any old device, and in the sense of allowing developers to expand the range of productivity tools and input modalities, it will become a must-have.
I got one and it's been an incredible productivity machine for me. For anyone interested in productivity, I suggest thinking about how many desktop-exclusive programs you want to be able to see at once. Once you are using all the available native/iPad apps on the vision pro directly, would you be able to fit everything else on a single 27-inch monitor?
I suspect that most people's productivity consists of putting input into one screen using one or two specialized programs, and would benefit from having more screens for reading at once (e.g. typing code into a code editor while having multiple documentation windows, dashboards, or communication apps open around it). This fits the Vision Pro's current capabilities perfectly.
Keep in mind that the Vision Pro has full web support, so anything web-based like Google Docs, Youtube, Slack, Obsidian, etc work great natively (either as webpages or as electron apps).
You definitely want a keyboard and trackpad for productivity; your mac's keyboard and trackpad/mouse work seamlessly with native apps when connected.
The main advantage of the Vision Pro for productivity is the basic more pixels = more productivity relationship, combined with the fact that turning your head slightly gives you 4x-9x more pixels at zero marginal cost. For me personally, I also find that having non-overlapping windows causes much less distraction and falling down rabbit holes (example: doing a web search doesn't cause my main work to be obscured from view). I also find that the Vision Pro gives me less friction / maintains flow better when there are physical world interruptions to my computer work or when using computer world entertainment while I am doing physical world work.
Display Quality
Subjectively, I'd say that the mac display mode is like a 3840x2160 display at 27-inches — it's substandard but made workable by the ability to blow up the display. The native apps are higher quality but not quite up to Apple's standards for post-2014 Macs. If I'm only thinking about working in my study, I'd be tempted to trade the Vision Pro for having 3 total 5K 27-inch displays; hopefully this gives you a good sense of the differences in display quality and good comparison for the price.
The Vision Pro would probably be a huge step up in display quality for those who would describe themselves as "non-Apple" people; the Windows-OEM ecosystem is extremely stifled for choice in this area.
Games
Non-immersive games are much, much better in mixed reality than VR. I found Synth Riders more fun and easier to play anywhere than Beat Saber because I didn't need to mess with controllers or making sure I wouldn't trip or punch a wall while blind. The built in board game app is great but the social network is not there. The Vision Pro is obviously capable of playing high-quality immersive VR games, but Apple has a bad track record of alienating of game studios.
Comfort
Comfort is great, though I do feel a little eye strain after multiple hours of use. The strap they use for the demos and marketing materials is much less good for prolonged use than the dual-loop one.
Loneliness
Spatial computing is incomplete without the ability for you to share your computing space with others. With every other screen I have the option of showing someone else what's on it, but with the Vision Pro I can only share my view, not the things I am looking at in the space they're in. Even if someone is has another vision pro in the room with me, I can't say "hey come look at this". Hopefully Apple is working on this — they have been building AR stuff into iPhones and iPads for a long time; the ability for someone else to hold up an iPad as a window into the space I've made in the Vision Pro would be a huge step forward in terms of working with other people.
So obvious question - who was using only one 27 inch screen before? That's madness! I am using three 30" right now. I think anyone with less than 2 is making a pretty crazy mistake.
So to look good wearing this I'd probably have to wear my sportbike gear? Maybe the clothes associated with anything that you normally have to wear a helmet for? (would a construction worker look good wearing this thing?)
> In this case, That One Killer App that I am confident in, right now, is as a way to watch movies. Also television or YouTube or other video, potentially, but especially movies where you want to give your full attention and they are designed for the biggest possible screen.
Ok, but, for this use case, there is competition from a range of ~$300 device that have existed for like 2 years: Xreal air, Rokid Air, Virture One XR, etc... I personally have been using nreal air (now xreal air) since late 2022 and can say they are great for entertainment (Steam Deck, Films, TV Series). They are occasionally good for productivity (e.g: on train, plane) but real monitors are better.